Introduction to routes and flight planning

CVA0014 · Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:31 pm

CVA1409 wrote:

Ah-ha! That's the whole point of RNAV - not being constrained to use airways!

...

With the advent of GNSS, FMCs etc.. pilots now have the capability of being able to accurately and simply navigate to any point on the earth's surface - they no longer need the assusstance of fixed asset Navaids.

Airlines and ATC autorities are therefore developing routes that go straight to destination, saving time and money in fuel. also, in the works are RNAV/GNSS arrivals designed for an idel descent that puts you at the right altitude and right place for final approach - studies have shown tremendous fuel savings over the traditional descend, level off for a bit, fly a pattern type of approach. Some of these are airline specific, due to certain routes and aircraft.

So, now that pilots have the abaility ro navigate anywhere (if suitably equipped), they need no longer be constrained to the roads in the sky, but fly cross country! Much like we all so when starting out VFR - draw a straight line and work from there.

Expect to see more of this. Major changes are in the works for the Windsor - Montreal corridor, including custom routes for CYOW-CYYA and CYUL-CYYZ. The whole program has been delayed, but as far as I know is still coming and will be rolled out in stages. VATCAN will endavour to keep up with the RW, as information becomes available.

Personally, I think that sucks. The only enjoyment I had during a flight was keeping care of where I'm going., monitoring waypoints, checking fuel. If I can now go Vancouver - Montreal with one or two waypoints, BORING!!!

Why do you think so many still use radio navigation? Cause it's a challenge, 'cause it's something to do.

Why do you think some do not like auto-pilots? 'Cause they don't want the plane to think for them.

Why do you think some some don't even like automated ILS approaches and landings? 'Cause that's the fun part in flight sims, coming in blind and hoping to find the runway before minimums.

The last thing we'd need is auto-takeoff and you will have a fully automated flight from runway to runway. The only thing left to do is taxi the plane, and even that could be controlled by a local system.

Sorry, but that's not for me. I fully appreciate the real world improving on efficiency, fuel economy and flight time, but this is a sim. We do this for fun. I might as well put up a youtube video of a complete flight and it will be close to the same thing once all these changes come through.

In the sim world, I have no doubt it could make ATC's life so much easier, but it's going to ruin it for a lot of pilots.

CVA1409 · Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:24 pm

I agree with you totally.

That's why I like to fly small aircraft, with 1 or 2 NAV recievers. No FMC, No GPS, just charts and radio aids.

Hell, real-world I fly with a chart, a compass and the good old MkI eyeball!

Yes, I like my PMDG 737, and when in the mood will do 2,3 hour flights with the FMC and autopilot doing the work for me, but I've neevr has the desire to go longer. Some day'll I'll go transatlantic, but simulationg 7 hours of cruise is not what I do this for.

Much more fun doing short hops and multiple approaches, or hitting the numbers on a profiled STAR into LAX on a busy day.

If you want a good workout, try flyign a DME arc approach with no GPS or FMC, just a pair on NAV radios. It's possible.......

On the other hand, that is the individual Pilot's choice - what and how they fly. We are simulating an airline, and real ATC, so we follow their procedures. There are piltos out there who enjoy the realism, so we cannot ignore them.

I'm illustrating the differences between the various options for routing and flight planning, and the reasons behind them. If you dont' like RNAV, file the non-RNAV route - but don't change the RNAV to something else, as someone else may want that. if you want to fly Air routes, file airroutes. They are all valid routes, and the options are given in the CFS because all aircraft are not equipped the same.

At the end of the day, FMC, GNSS came along to lower the workload on the pilot. In the simulated world, lowering workload becomes counterproductive, as you end up watching your computer fly a simulated aircraft.

If it's real world, dark, in moderate turbulence in hard IFR - I would love to use an autopilot/FMC/GPS to help me get out alive. In the SIM, hand flying is fun!

CVA0014 · Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:31 pm

So basically we're reaching the point where we'll need 2 routes in our database; one that simulates the short routes CFS will be coming out with, and the old-fashioned airway route we have now.

Rob Vanderkam · Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:03 am

And speaking of CFS, how the h-e-double hockey sticks did you get your hands on a CFS so quickly?! Wasn't it just yesterday that you said you're going to get one? You're faaaaaaaassssssttttttttt=========--------------*

CVA0014 · Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:15 am

Contacts...

CVA0014 · Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:19 am

I can't find the thread any more, but someone had posted a link to free charts a while back. I had downloaded everything I could back then, not knowing one of them was the CFS. I checked in my DOWNLOAD/CVA folder and there it was waiting for me.

72meg file, 62meg compressed in a ZIP file, kinda big to email and I don't have a storage site.

Any ideas?

CVA0319 · **Joined:** Tue Dec 01, 2009 1:26 am **Posts:** 583

this may be one way
http://skydrive.live.com/

CVA0014 · Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:13 am

Holy crap, 25G! That's waaay better than what I was inviting you guys to join. DropBox only starts 2G, with 250M extra with each new friend, etc.

EDIT: Ok, this sucks, there's a 50M limit on each file. Most of the CAP PDFs bust that, same with CFS and Airport Charts.

DropBox is better I guess, we have less space, but there's no limit on individual files.

Edited By CVA0014 on 1271996189

CVA0319 · **Joined:** Tue Dec 01, 2009 1:26 am **Posts:** 583

Hey Robert,
what is the name of the that 72 meg file by the way?
When I wiped windows 7 off my computer I discovered I had wiped out all those files but a couple of weeks ago I found the thread again and redownloaded the majority of them (no, I can't find the thread again this evening

CVA0014 · Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:47 am

Gary, read your mail.

It's called cfs.pdf.

Edited By CVA0014 on 1271998092

Introduction to routes and flight planning

Who is online