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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:47 pm 
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I'm using FS-X Deluxe original version, no service packs.

Has anyone been able to enter a "realistic" FS-X flight plan for Chicago? By realistic, I mean one using the VATSIM charts.

I tried importing SimRoutes but it won't import, it keeps the old FP in the planner. The SimRoutes plan isn't in VATSIM charts either. I tried a few AVTSIM charts but can't find any intersections in FS-X planner.

If I use Navigator, can I use the VATSIM charts and will it import into FS-X?



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:40 am 
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Chicago has recently (within the last few years) updated their arrival charts, and so any new intersections that were created won't be in FSX. Have you tried another external flight planner like vasFMC or FSNav?



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:35 pm 
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I had tried the Nav demo when I had first joined CVA, I had liked it but wasn't sure if it was a good buy. From what I've read here and elsewhere, FS Nav seems like a good idea.

I have a small problem with compulsive decisions so I'm trying to take a bit more time before buying stuff now.



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:37 pm 
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Just note that fsnavigator does not work with fsx.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:08 pm 
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Just note that FSNavigator is longer being sold.



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:30 pm 
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argh...

So what do you guys recommend?



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:50 pm 
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Instead of importing a flight plan I usually write down my waypoints including SID's and STAR's with a notation for altitude, speed, etc. beside each one and then manually plug them in to the GPS while I'm flying. It gives me a little more to do while in flight rather than just serving drinks and food with FS Passengers.

I rarely use the FSX default routes. I'll get them from either www.simroutes.com or the flight planner on www.virtual-skies.com. I usually download a PDF with SID's and STAR's.



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:25 pm 
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Has anyone tried exporting flight plans from SimRoutes and then editting the FS-X file manually?

I opened one up yesterday and it doesn't seem that complicated. I expected it to be a hex file but was surprised to see it open in WordPad.



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:50 pm 
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The only thing I hate about simroutes is that you can't choose where you start off at your departure airport, and when you load it up in FSX, if you try to edit the airport there, it will erase the flight plan and make a new default FSX one, So sometimes when I do use Simroutes, I find myself loaded up in the middle of an airport building :p



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:00 pm 
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Hmm, I see what you mean, I just had that happen.

I'm checking the files now, maybe it's just a simple fix.

EDIT: No wonder...

FS-X flight plan:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>

<SimBase.Document Type="AceXML" version="1,0">
<Descr>AceXML Document</Descr>
<FlightPlan.FlightPlan>
<Title>KORD to CYUL</Title>
<FPType>IFR</FPType>
<RouteType>HighAlt</RouteType>
<CruisingAlt>28000</CruisingAlt>
<DepartureID>KORD</DepartureID>
<DepartureLLA>N41° 58' 46.80",W87° 54' 16.20",+000668.00</DepartureLLA>
<DestinationID>CYUL</DestinationID>
<DestinationLLA>N45° 28' 4.80",W73° 44' 28.80",+000117.00</DestinationLLA>
<Descr>KORD, CYUL</Descr>
<DepartureName>Chicago_Ohare_Intl</DepartureName>
<DestinationName>Montreal_P-E_Trudeau_Intl</DestinationName>
<AppVersion>
<AppVersionMajor>10</AppVersionMajor>
<AppVersionBuild>61472</AppVersionBuild>
</AppVersion>
<ATCWaypoint id="KORD">
<ATCWaypointType>Airport</ATCWaypointType>
<WorldPosition>N41° 58' 46.80",W87° 54' 16.20",+000000.00</WorldPosition>
<ICAO>
<ICAOIdent>KORD</ICAOIdent>
</ICAO>
</ATCWaypoint>
<ATCWaypoint id="ORD">
<ATCWaypointType>VOR</ATCWaypointType>
<WorldPosition>N41° 59' 15.60",W87° 54' 17.40",+000000.00</WorldPosition>
<ATCAirway>ORD3</ATCAirway>
</ATCWaypoint>
<ATCWaypoint id="ELX">
<ATCWaypointType>VOR</ATCWaypointType>
<WorldPosition>N42° 8' 39.60",W86° 7' 21.60",+000000.00</WorldPosition>
</ATCWaypoint>
<ATCWaypoint id="UNBAR">
<ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
<WorldPosition>N42° 2' 54.00",W85° 12' 47.40",+000000.00</WorldPosition>
</ATCWaypoint>
<ATCWaypoint id="SVM">
<ATCWaypointType>VOR</ATCWaypointType>
<WorldPosition>N42° 24' 31.80",W83° 35' 39.00",+000000.00</WorldPosition>
</ATCWaypoint>
<ATCWaypoint id="YXU">
<ATCWaypointType>VOR</ATCWaypointType>
<WorldPosition>N43° 2' 17.40",W81° 8' 54.60",+000000.00</WorldPosition>
</ATCWaypoint>
<ATCWaypoint id="YYZ">
<ATCWaypointType>VOR</ATCWaypointType>
<WorldPosition>N43° 39' 28.80",W79° 37' 54.00",+000000.00</WorldPosition>
</ATCWaypoint>
<ATCWaypoint id="MSS">
<ATCWaypointType>VOR</ATCWaypointType>
<WorldPosition>N44° 54' 51.60",W74° 43' 21.60",+000000.00</WorldPosition>
</ATCWaypoint>
<ATCWaypoint id="FRANX">
<ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
<WorldPosition>N45° 15' 9.00",W74° 12' 28.80",+000000.00</WorldPosition>
</ATCWaypoint>
<ATCWaypoint id="CYUL">
<ATCWaypointType>Airport</ATCWaypointType>
<WorldPosition>N45° 28' 4.80",W73° 44' 28.80",+000000.00</WorldPosition>
<ATCAirway>FRANX5</ATCAirway>
<ICAO>
<ICAOIdent>CYUL</ICAOIdent>
</ICAO>
</ATCWaypoint>
</FlightPlan.FlightPlan>
</SimBase.Document>


SimRoutes flight plan:

[flightplan]
title=KORD to CYUL
description=KORD, CYUL
type = IFR
routetype = 3
cruising_altitude=0
departure_id=KORD, N41* 58.78', W87* 54.27', +000668.00
destination_id=CYUL, N45* 28.08', W73* 44.48', +000117.00
departure_name=Chicago_Ohare_Intl
destination_name=Montreal_P-E_Trudeau_Intl
waypoint.0=KORD, A, N41* 58.78', W087* 54.27', +000000.00,
waypoint.1=ORD, V, N41* 59.26', W087* 54.29', +000000.00, ORD3
waypoint.2=SVM, V, N42* 24.53', W083* 35.65', +000000.00,
waypoint.3=YXU, V, N43* 02.29', W081* 08.91', +000000.00,
waypoint.4=YYZ, V, N43* 39.48', W079* 37.90', +000000.00,
waypoint.5=REXOM, I, N43* 55.02', W078* 41.07', +000000.00, J594
waypoint.6=UMEXO, I, N44* 44.31', W075* 28.61', +000000.00, J594
waypoint.7=MSS, V, N44* 54.86', W074* 43.36', +000000.00, J594
waypoint.8=CYUL, A, N45* 28.08', W073* 44.48', +000000.00, FRANX5



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:42 pm 
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The coordinates don't even match, so we can't do a conversion program:


<ATCWaypoint id="KORD">
<WorldPosition>N41° 58' 46.80",W87° 54' 16.20",+000000.00</WorldPosition>

waypoint.0=KORD, A, N41* 58.78', W087* 54.27', +000000.00,


<ATCWaypoint id="ORD">
<WorldPosition>N41° 59' 15.60",W87° 54' 17.40",+000000.00</WorldPosition>

waypoint.1=ORD, V, N41* 59.26', W087* 54.29', +000000.00, ORD3


<ATCWaypoint id="SVM">
<WorldPosition>N42° 24' 31.80",W83° 35' 39.00",+000000.00</WorldPosition>

waypoint.2=SVM, V, N42* 24.53', W083* 35.65', +000000.00,


<ATCWaypoint id="YXU">
<WorldPosition>N43° 2' 17.40",W81° 8' 54.60",+000000.00</WorldPosition>

waypoint.3=YXU, V, N43* 02.29', W081* 08.91', +000000.00,


<ATCWaypoint id="YYZ">
<WorldPosition>N43° 39' 28.80",W79° 37' 54.00",+000000.00</WorldPosition>

waypoint.4=YYZ, V, N43* 39.48', W079* 37.90', +000000.00,


<ATCWaypoint id="MSS">
<WorldPosition>N44° 54' 51.60",W74° 43' 21.60",+000000.00</WorldPosition>

waypoint.7=MSS, V, N44* 54.86', W074* 43.36', +000000.00, J594


<ATCWaypoint id="CYUL">
<WorldPosition>N45° 28' 4.80",W73° 44' 28.80",+000000.00</WorldPosition>

waypoint.8=CYUL, A, N45* 28.08', W073* 44.48', +000000.00, FRANX5



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:29 pm 
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Thats confusing, So either FSX or Simroutes is using the wrong coordinates, Airports and locations only have 1 set of coordinates don't they? Unless they have legs and move around on us :D



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:04 am 
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I think I see the problem. The coordinates are the same only they are in different formats. N43* 58' 46.80" can also be written as N43* 58.78'.
The first is 43 degrees, 58 minutes, 46.80 seconds. The 2nd is 43 degrees, 58.78 minutes.



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:15 am 
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Ah, so that is good, I could try to make a conversion program from one file format to the other.



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:26 pm 
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My solution (in FS9, not FSX) was to stop using the built-in flight planner altogether! Set up at the departure airport, at the desired gate then go from there.

Small aircraft/VFR - I use maps, eyes and a piece of paper! Also navaids are invaluable - learn how to track VOR radials, use an NDB etc... Much more fun than watching the GPS screen... (Although, the GPS is useful for making sure you don't bust airspace restrictions).

For commercail flights, I use either vasFMC ([url=null]http://www.vas-project.org/[/url] or the bult-in FMC in my PMDG 737.

The reat thing about vasFMC is that is is universal - works in any aircraft. It simply moves the autopilot heading bug for you to simulate LNAV. No VNAV (in the version I use) but that is pretty simple to figure out. Adding and editing routes is a breeze (easier than the 737 FMC) and keeping up with ATC re-routes and shortcuts is simple as well.

Best of all, both have updatable Nav databases (through Navigraph for a small but worth it cost) - and you only pay once to update both!

As i said at the start, I have no experience with FSX, but that solution worked has worked fine for me in FS9 for several years now.



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