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 Post subject: Flying Club or Airline?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:29 pm 
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Hey All,
I don't want to stir up the crap, but...
I have had the chance to talk to some CVA folks online lately and all have agreed with this sentiment. I love CVA. My activity level changes over time but I am always here. It seems to me we are becoming more of a flying club than an airline. I just want to throw that idea out there for discussion. Perhaps there is room to spawn off a CVA flying club to preserve the nature of the airline?

We all like hopping into our beavers or whatever and flying into the mountains for some fun/challenging landings etc, but it seems to be taking away from the airline aspects of CVA. Lately I've been putting in a lot of airline hours (not neccesarily all with cvaacars, which rocks btw) and I am in the process of learning to be a controller. As such I have euroscope open pretty much all the time. I am observing what goes on online on vatsim.
I have never put much emphasis on us versus them type observations, but damn, we are almost extinct. CXA guys are on ALL the time. I can't count how many times I have been refferred to as "Canadian Express 987" by atc. In the past week or two, I have been introduced to a LOT of Canadian ATC's for VATSIM. None of them have even heard of CVA.

As far as I know there is only 1 VA in existence in Canada that has been around as long as we have. For that we should be proud. We have a great group of people here and it is comforting knowing that we have a place to call home that we can always come back to. However, in the airline game, we are getting our butts kicked. I'm not talking about our fleet, our website, or our operations. It's purely a numbers game and right now we hardly even exist in the airline space. We are still Canadian Virtual Airlines aren't we?

<completely random rant section>
There are a lot of really good airlines out there competing for pilots... Canadian Express, Porter, Air Canada, West Jet, some of which have the natural advatage of being based on a current real world airline.
I tried joining in on a flyin that the express guys had the other day and wondered why I haven't flown with any CVA guys lately. Ignoring timing issues with multi's I really don't see much CVA activity online these days. Certainly no group activities or people flying together.
</completely random rant section>

What can/should we do to put focus back on CVA as an airline? or should we? What about advertising? Why is CXA the only airline officially recognized by VATCAN? Should we strive to get more newbies? Is it wrong for me to want to be part of a more active airline?


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 Post subject: Re: Flying Club or Airline?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:12 pm 
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Ok 1st lets talk about the CXA for idea's. They fly on both IVAO and Vatsim. That right there offers two levels of online flight. Vatsim I would say is a intermediate to hard skill level and let's face it it's a heck of a lot of fun. Now IVAO like Vatsim, but offers a new pilot a chance to ease into online ATC flight and get over fear and yes that can be a common. But CXA has a zero offline flight policy, all flights online. Now the VA Schedule there is free flight skies the limit and ac selection is rank based. However they use that darn Fsacars Err. I like CVA's Kacars and Im not going to address the Xacars which I have a few explicit names for it. Another thing CXA is also a certified ATO's for the Vatsim P ratings.

If one wants to observe and see's something that might be of interest then by all means bring it to CVA attention. Sometimes a good old kicking the 737 tires is all that's need for energy to beat them VA Blues. I guess my ? is related to Kacars, can it be used in a Free Flight or is it programed based to schedule. I have always been curious on that.



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 Post subject: Re: Flying Club or Airline?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:09 am 
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CAF440 wrote:
... But CXA has a zero offline flight policy, all flights online. Now the VA Schedule there is free flight skies the limit and ac selection is rank based. However they use that darn Fsacars Err.


not quite, zero, 10 Hours are alowed offline, after that it's all Online. i like how they have it that you can fly from any point Alpha to any point Bravo, that's really interesting, that way i can fly to or from my home airport anytime and Log hours for it (as long as it's online, Vatsim 4 Me). another thing though that i don't like other than the Must fly online, as you mentioned is the Rank based flying, you can't even dowload let alone fly the big Tin unless you have the hours, I 4 1 would love to fly the 737 to and from my home airport, but i can't due to me needing more hours (i Currently have 38 Hours with them, i need 50 to fly any of the 737's), another thing i hate about there ranking is that the rank required a plane is a whole lot diffrent compared to here in CVA we have 5 classes, 1 is props, all and any props, 2 is RJ's (CRJ's, ERJ's, B727, ETC), 3 is medium range Jets (A320 Family, B737's and 757's, ETC), 4 is Smaller Long Range Jets(B767, B742, ETC.) then theres 5, Large Long Range Jets (Tripple Seven, B744, A340, ETC). At CXA the Ranks are totally different, here is the Rank (Hours needed) and A/C to Download and fly: Second Officer (0-20 Hours, Noobie Rank)-B190, C152, C182, DHC6, M7, SR20, P180 And the PC12. First officer (What i currently am at, 20-50 Hours)- AT72, JS31, JS41, BE60, B60T, B430 (Helo), CRJ7, DHC7 and the F100. Captain (50-100 Hours, Where i'm at in CVA for Hours, Next step for CXA)-A320, B732, B733, B739, B752, C750, E190, H748, C-130, MD83. Senior Captain (100-200 Hours, Next Step at CVA)- A332, B722, B763. ATP Captain (200-300 Hours)- A343, B772, MD11. Master ATP Captain (300+ Hours, Top Rank)- CONC, A388, B744. The only way to possible way to get a Plane above your rank is to find out who made the Model (POSKEY, PAD, Flight 1, Captain Sim, ETC) and Buy/Download it and fly it or if there is a Specific Plane for a Monthly Challenge then they'll have it so that any pilot can get that plane regardless of rank for that month only to do whatever is needed for the Challenge.

As for FSAcars, i think they are trying to find/develop something to replace it, Hopefully they find something soon cause FSAcars Suck, i hope they get KAcars or something to Replace it.
/Mini Rant /Other VA Fleet/Rank Info Giving
Quote:
I like CVA's Kacars...

Ditto, a Lot better than ol FSAcars.



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 Post subject: Re: Flying Club or Airline?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:16 am 
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Location: Up here wishing I was down there.
I don't know what's happening with management. I know they relaxed during summer like everyone else, but usually they're back in control by now with weekly multis.

I saw Chuck resurface recently and maybe a few posts from Frank (I think). But someone is approving pireps so someone's working.

Personally, I've been doing Carribbean flights mostly; taking the 767 out over that beautiful bright blue water.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying Club or Airline?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:28 pm 
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Craig wrote:
Hey All,
I don't want to stir up the crap, but...
I have had the chance to talk to some CVA folks online lately and all have agreed with this sentiment. I love CVA. My activity level changes over time but I am always here. It seems to me we are becoming more of a flying club than an airline. I just want to throw that idea out there for discussion. Perhaps there is room to spawn off a CVA flying club to preserve the nature of the airline?

We all like hopping into our beavers or whatever and flying into the mountains for some fun/challenging landings etc, but it seems to be taking away from the airline aspects of CVA. Lately I've been putting in a lot of airline hours (not neccesarily all with cvaacars, which rocks btw) and I am in the process of learning to be a controller. As such I have euroscope open pretty much all the time. I am observing what goes on online on vatsim.
I have never put much emphasis on us versus them type observations, but damn, we are almost extinct. CXA guys are on ALL the time. I can't count how many times I have been refferred to as "Canadian Express 987" by atc. In the past week or two, I have been introduced to a LOT of Canadian ATC's for VATSIM. None of them have even heard of CVA.

As far as I know there is only 1 VA in existence in Canada that has been around as long as we have. For that we should be proud. We have a great group of people here and it is comforting knowing that we have a place to call home that we can always come back to. However, in the airline game, we are getting our butts kicked. I'm not talking about our fleet, our website, or our operations. It's purely a numbers game and right now we hardly even exist in the airline space. We are still Canadian Virtual Airlines aren't we?

<completely random rant section>
There are a lot of really good airlines out there competing for pilots... Canadian Express, Porter, Air Canada, West Jet, some of which have the natural advatage of being based on a current real world airline.
I tried joining in on a flyin that the express guys had the other day and wondered why I haven't flown with any CVA guys lately. Ignoring timing issues with multi's I really don't see much CVA activity online these days. Certainly no group activities or people flying together.
</completely random rant section>

What can/should we do to put focus back on CVA as an airline? or should we? What about advertising? Why is CXA the only airline officially recognized by VATCAN? Should we strive to get more newbies? Is it wrong for me to want to be part of a more active airline?



Hey Craig!

Thanks for your post and good to hear from you. CVA has definitely been around as you know for many years (since the late 1990's to be exact) and one of the few "Virtual Airlines" from that era that continues today! We've always been one of the smaller airlines based on the fact we have been fictitious and people seem to be more attracted to real world brand names. That being said - CVA has always offered that level of flexibility between real world and fantasy world that has continued to maintain and grow our airline over the years. That and a top notch group of experienced pilots and management team over the years :D

We have many people here of all sorts from novice virtual pilots to real world certified pilots and keeping everyone happy has always been the challenge but I think we've done a good job to try and meet many folks expectations. With somewhat relaxed rules but a defined structure in place it continues to attract many to the VA today.

Online presence has always been a challenge for CVA from what I remember over the years and getting folks out to a regular scheduled multi event is is no exception here. I've been scheduling the multi events for the past year or more solid on a weekly basis and it has been sometimes sad to see only a couple of pilots out to the events. Some nights we get 6 or more and that is always nice to see. We did a poll a while back and the membership at that time had determined they would like to see multi's on 2 nights a week so that they could make it to one or the other event. Splitting our pilots up over 2 nights may mean fewer pilots on a given night but more pilots able to participate overall in the multi. I know for me personally while I continue to maintain the VA today and provide a hoem for everyone here I am rarely able to get out to a multi on my own - and I'm the damned President LOL!!! :D

I'm not sure what the magic formula is to get more people out there representing CVA? We seem to have all the right ingredients - Weekly multi's, a massive amount of flight routes to choose from, online reporting software, a strong forum for membership, great management team, fantastic members with tons of knowledge. If i am missing something please let me know?

We are always looking for suggestion on how to make CVA a better place to be and if anyone has those suggestions the management team is more than willing to chat and discuss with everyone here. We definitely try to get input from many of our senior members who have stayed with us over the years as we have seen phases come and go within the VA.

The door is open - walk in and bring us your thoughts :D

On a side note as mentioend in my other posting - I've been away for work off / on the past 2 months and just getting back now so multi's will start to flow again shortly :D

Cheers! :mrgreen:



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 Post subject: Re: Flying Club or Airline?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:42 pm 
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You are absolutely right Darryl. Those are the exact reasons CVA still exists today. I guess I am interested in making CVA a little more popular. I don't think any operational changes are needed. The factilities, the flights, the fleet, the site/forum are all great. I believe it is more of a question of getting the name out there. For an airline that has been around as long as it has, CVA is not well known. Perhaps we need to encourage the membership to get out there and promote out airline more! For starters, we really need to have our banner plastered all over where ever we can... like the VATSIM/VATCAN sites.. at the very least we should be affiliated with them. Perhaps 1 out of every 4 multi's can be advertised. Even getting together and co-sponsoring an event occasionally with some of the other airlines. Fictitious or not, CVA was founded to be the airline for all canadians. I think they just need to see us and find out who we are and what a great place this is to call home!


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 Post subject: Re: Flying Club or Airline?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:52 am 
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One very important thing has been missed in this thread. Yes, CVA is not the biggest Canuck VA on VATSIM, I see that myself on ServInfo.

BUT, we were barely 100 members when I joined just 2-3 years ago. The front page of the main site says the latest member is #978.

We have grown 10-fold over the last year or so. That is a LOT of new blood. Yes, several of those may want to remain offline, or fly IVAO instead of VATSIM, but at least there has been a huge growth in membership lately.

We may not have 1000s of members, but I value quality over quantity any day.


Last edited by CVA0014 on Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying Club or Airline?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:21 pm 
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Bullshit! I'm online flying every day when I'm not at camp. I see very few CVA ( a handful) flying online (unless they're flying a whole bunch while I'm sleeping). There are probably about 20 or 30 of us (I think I'm being generous here) that carry this Airline. The rest are just names and don't represent CVA at all. CVA should be flying "Canadian" and supporting the FIRs in Canada. Moncton, Montreal, Toronto Winnipeg, Edmonton and Vancouver would love to see CVA on their scopes on Wednesday and Saturday. Multis should be Canadian where our pilots and our contrillers can gain experience. It would also put CVA back in the forefront where it used to be. If its Toronto FIRs' turn for a multi either fly out of, or in to, that Hub. Same goes for the other Firs.

Cheers Bill

I think that "all flights" should be done online in order to count.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying Club or Airline?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:40 pm 
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Quote:
There are probably about 20 or 30 of us (I think I'm being generous here) that carry this Airline


Hit the nail on the head! It may show that we have 930 Pilots, which is very impressive, if they flew, even some that have logged hours, haven't flown in years.
most haven't even been on the forums.

Quote:
I think that "all flights" should be done online in order to count

I agree, There is no reason why people can't fly online. There has been a few people that have made some pretty impressive programs so we can fly online
and there is plenty of help in the forums to get you online. I would really hate to see Vatsim go by the wayside due to lack of interest.
And hey the controllers are there when we need them, why not return the favor. :)

Quote:
If its Toronto FIRs' turn for a multi either fly out of, or in to, that Hub. Same goes for the other Firs

I think most but not all Multis should be out of the FIRs, nice to do a change-up once in a while.



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 Post subject: Re: Flying Club or Airline?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:32 am 
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Bill Haystead wrote:
I think that "all flights" should be done online in order to count.


Agreed and if they don't like Vatsim there is IVAO. I fly on both and the Quebec Ctr at IVAO is very nice and extremely helpful to new pilots. And can someone please get me a connection flight from Yellowknife to Edmonton. I feel trapped in the Canadian Beer cooler :lol: :lol:



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 Post subject: Re: Flying Club or Airline?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:25 am 
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Quote:
And can someone please get me a connection flight from Yellowknife to Edmonton

I am working on the routes as we spea....... type. :P
I'm thinking just with the routes you suggested there is about 42 routes to do with the return trips. :shock:



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 Post subject: Re: Flying Club or Airline?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:26 am 
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I will give you some proper information on this subject.

Yes we had 930 applications for members but actual members who have logged time (including 90 trial period) are now at 299 members.

In those 930 applications many have got the boot because they where done by internet bots and others have been booted because they did not fly hours in the 90 days (trial period) of the application.

Now we average about ten flights a day and so far this month (September) we have filed 298 flights and this was done with 33 members of CVA, So only about 10% of our pilots are active. Now The Express folks are doing a great job because they have 147 pilots on their roster. Looking at last ten Pireps, they where all filled by ten differnet pilots, and have logged a total of 1369 Pireps in the month of September, they have I would guess 30% to 40% of their pilots are active.

No I do not think all flights should be online I myself fly many flight offline because I live in a small apartment and I do not want to wake my wife with CVA9214 CLEARED TO LAND!!!!

Yes I do want to make the use of CVAcars to only format to accept Pireps (no manual unless it is by management)

Yes we do need to work with the FIRS to get more recognition. In fact many years ago we where well known because we had our own members who where very active controllers in the Vancouver, Winnipeg and Toronto FIRS and even the Moncton FIRS for the fact.



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 Post subject: Re: Flying Club or Airline?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:20 pm 
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FYI: I'm currently in training and will be controlling in the Moncton FIR (where almost all of them also fly).


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 Post subject: Re: Flying Club or Airline?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:08 pm 
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I admit that I haven't been very active lately, but most of that has to do with the fact that I'm all over the place in the real world. Should start seeing me putting up more PIREPs very soon though.

Craig wrote:
FYI: I'm currently in training and will be controlling in the Moncton FIR (where almost all of them also fly).


Craig, if you need someone to come beat up a circuit somewhere, give me a shout. I've got a nice mix of fast and slow movers that I can up the complexity with. Not to mention that I picked up iFly 737 and the Flight1 PC12, so I'll have to get some PIC time with those.



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 Post subject: Re: Flying Club or Airline?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:01 pm 
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CVA9214 wrote:
I will give you some proper information on this subject.

Yes we had 930 applications for members but actual members who have logged time (including 90 trial period) are now at 299 members.

In those 930 applications many have got the boot because they where done by internet bots and others have been booted because they did not fly hours in the 90 days (trial period) of the application.

Now we average about ten flights a day and so far this month (September) we have filed 298 flights and this was done with 33 members of CVA, So only about 10% of our pilots are active. Now The Express folks are doing a great job because they have 147 pilots on their roster. Looking at last ten Pireps, they where all filled by ten differnet pilots, and have logged a total of 1369 Pireps in the month of September, they have I would guess 30% to 40% of their pilots are active.

No I do not think all flights should be online I myself fly many flight offline because I live in a small apartment and I do not want to wake my wife with CVA9214 CLEARED TO LAND!!!!

Yes I do want to make the use of CVAcars to only format to accept Pireps (no manual unless it is by management)

Yes we do need to work with the FIRS to get more recognition. In fact many years ago we where well known because we had our own members who where very active controllers in the Vancouver, Winnipeg and Toronto FIRS and even the Moncton FIRS for the fact.


hey Frank,

Thanks for posting the stats - that gives everyone a pretty good idea of where we are currently at. It also shows that our active roster of pilots is generally kept down to those who fly within 90 days (with some exceptions like the President of course who never has time to fly Virtually!!! :D )

This also shows that while it appears we are not active - we are active...just not as much as some other airlines...or as much as other pilots may want us to be. I think part of the secret is being able to have a good multi turnout on a regular night, and possibly more "Canadian" visibility. I don't think flying Canadian routes only is the right thing to do as many of us enjoy flying routes all over the world, especially in North America.

We have tried many polls to see what works best to get people out to multi's and it has been a hit and miss over the years. We have a lot of pilots but not a lot who fly on Vatsim with most of us. Primarily we are a Vatsim only group - maybe that is part of the challenge. Also it is a time factor for many of us. I don't know to many organizations who regularly schedule 2 nights a week for multi flights....most are 1 night a week or less (i.e. - once a month). That being said - of those people at our airline who do fly on a regular basis - not all fly at the multi but put in a great number of hours flying other times, sometimes daily (a.k.a. Bill, etc) and those people should be well thanked for their continued support of the VA in the online arena!

What we need is someone who can work with the FIRS in Canada, work with Vatsim, etc and be our public events coordinator face. We had someone who volunteered to take this on some time ago but they have since dropped off unfortunately. If anyone is interested in picking up that ball and willing to put in some time to assist with planning multi's I would be more than happy to speak with them. Trying to think of new events / ideas on a weekly basis for you guys can be a bit of a challenge :)

Cheers! :mrgreen:



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