It is currently Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:33 pm




 Page 2 of 3 [ 34 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 5:25 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 9:18 am
Posts: 284
Location: Prince George, B.C.
Ok, I'll get my S@#$ together here, and go through them instead of flying them. Going to Van tomorrow back Wednesday. Daddys day today, maybe later. Anyway beer's on me Holiday Inn Express Richmond Tomorrow Monday 19:00 PST. If anybodys interested. Plane dosn't land till 17:50.



_________________
James/CVA69.........cause that the way I like it.
Image
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 7:19 pm 
OK, thanks to Keith (again!) I managed to edit a couple of the problems with the schedule page:

- I changed the 33 hour flight;

- I changed all the double-decimal flight times (e.g. 2.75) into single decimals rounded to the nearest half-hour (2.75 becomes 3.0);

- I added decimals to the flight times that were missing them (e.g. 6 becomes 6.0); and

- I added flight times (10.0) to two flights that were missing them.

Regarding SIDs and STARs, I am personally NOT a big fan of publishing them because they change so often. Anytime anything in a procedure changes it is renumbered. For example, if an altitude or heading changed on the "CVA1" arrival, it would be republished as "CVA2" and so on....

It would be my preference to delete all references to SIDs and STARs on the routes pages and let pilots look up and file that which is current. (In fact, I wouldn't even include routes on the schedule page, as we're always free to fly what we want.)

I will, though, defer to the hub membership on this topic: If you feel strongly either way please post a response here. If you don't care either way, then just let it go.....


Cheers!

Gary



Edited By Gary Madore on 1119209122


  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:02 am 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2000 2:25 am
Posts: 112
Location: Vancouver
I think that's a great idea, Gary, get rid of 'em. With all the good and current information available in today's flight simming world, I wouldn't think to take a flight anywhere without checking with the host control facility first to find out current procedures. Stray thought just hit me...I would really like to see a link for both the departure and arrival airports right in the schedule so that I could go directly to download the current SIDs, STARs, or anything else important instead of having to drill through other methods. Can this be done?



_________________
Image
Senator - No Job, No Phone, No Office, No Money
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 8:23 pm 
Ken CVA868 wrote:
Stray thought just hit me...I would really like to see a link for both the departure and arrival airports right in the schedule so that I could go directly to download the current SIDs, STARs, or anything else important instead of having to drill through other methods. Can this be done?

Heh heh.... If I didn't know better I would think that you were asking this just to get me spinning! ;)

I imagine it could be done... I'd just have to find somewhere that contains the info (would have to provide FLIPs or extracts from same, for example) AND would have to be a collection websites that aren't going anywhere or changing directory structures any time soon. Otherwise, the links would just die on us.

I s'pose that the BEST was to tackle this would be to host the FLIPs on our own server. Hmmmmmmmm........

Leave this with me Ken, and I'll see if I can find an idiot who wants to take on this project. Er, I mean, "see if Keith and Wayne are interested in helping this wonderful idea come to light...."

Cheers!

Gary




Edited By Gary Madore on 1119299180


  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:22 am 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2000 2:25 am
Posts: 112
Location: Vancouver
Didn't mean to get you spinning, but I was just thinking of a link to the airport. So instead of having to go to (e.g.) VATUSA > FIRS > Airports > "KLAX" to find the SID/STARs, the direct link to the airport could be right in the flight plan section of the flight's route in the Schedule. It shouldn't be difficult, and if I still have the access, I'll try one or two to see if it works. If it does, I can do a few, but someone else will have to chip in. But that's later.

So it would look something like this:

1287 CYVR KLAX 3 'link to CYVR' SEA blah blah 'link to KLAX' (with the actual links between the apostrophes)

Whaddya think? Actually, if this works, why not just drop the routing altogether since each FIR has a "preferred routing" option that provides this information?

See what retirement does? Leaves time to harrass the new boss. :D




Edited By Ken CVA868 on 1119320654



_________________
Image
Senator - No Job, No Phone, No Office, No Money
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:56 pm 
Heya Ken!

I wasn't aware that "official" websites had any such information and so thought that any links we would use would have to be to the works of fellow simmers, such as VATCAN. My worries that websites will change and/or disappear are based in that belief.

If you think, though, that info can be extraced from "official" sites (and by that I simply mean commercial sites that aren't likely to change anytime soon) such as www.yvr.ca then I can't see any insurmountable problems.

I really like the idea.... What sort of sites (got an example?) were you thinking of linking to?

Cheers!

Gary


  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:06 pm 
Hey... I was just playing with the "Simplan" flight planner on the VATCAN CZVR website.... I ran sample plans to/from Honolulu and Toronto and they looked pretty good to me.

One exception was that Vancouver defaulted to the Booth arrival: What happens if 26 is active? Hmmmmmmmm.......

(This is a pet-peeve of mine in real life, by the way: I object to the practice of filing ANY SID/STAR in a flight plan because it's a terminal procedure and thus completely under the control (so to speak!) of the terminal controller(s). SIDs/STARs may or may not be flown depending on traffic and I don't think they belong in a flight plan. For the longest time, published guidance agreed with me (e.g. the GPH204) but it seems that instead of forcing aircrews to do it properly they've just changed the publication.... Argh!)

Cheers!

Gary




Edited By Gary Madore on 1119463280


  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:11 am 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2000 2:25 am
Posts: 112
Location: Vancouver
No Gary, not commercial sites. I'm saying that we link to the VATSIM sites. But instead of having to work through the layers, I can post the direct link to the VATSIM airport site. I hope they are fairly stable, but if one changes, I'm sure we'll hear about it in the forum. But that is a well considered potential problem.

This also brings the discussion back full circle. It really is the pilot's responsibility to make sure they have the most current information from the "official" VATSIM control agency before taking a flight, just like real pilots have to have the current charts for every flight. If the convenience of providing direct links to the SIDs and STARs proves to be a major maintenance chore, forget it! There is too much to do already! Either the schedule provides current information, or drop any reference at all and let the pilots do the work.

As I said, I'll play with it a bit and submit any success to you for consideration.



_________________
Image
Senator - No Job, No Phone, No Office, No Money
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:02 pm 
Sounds great to me Ken.

Let me know what I can do to help with your research.

Cheers!

Gary


  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 3:46 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 9:18 am
Posts: 284
Location: Prince George, B.C.
Guy's I have a couple more pennies to throw into the woodwork here. When I started out here about 6 months ago, I knew NOTHING about Flight Plans, Charts, or procedures. One thing I found to be a very helpful tool was the fact that the Flight Plan Routes were already laid out for you, with the STARS, and most with SIDs, but not all. All I had to do was find the charts, and print them off. Too do away with them altogether I think would be a unessassary burden on people just starting out. I am all for putting in links to the charts, but to do away with the routes on the Class 1 & 2 flights would make the learning curve a little to steep in my opinion. It was becuase I had something to follow I was able to understand all of this stuff alot quicker, even though I began to find, out of date STARs mostly and a couple of Sids. This believe it or not was also helpful in the learning process as well, as I was begining to understand it all when I began finding them. ie) BOOTH2 intead of BOOTH5. Anyway at this point flying a class 3 level, I don't require the routes anymore, just the Departure and Arrival Airports the rest I know how to figure out on my own. Including multiple arrivals in the FP. But for the people just starting out this can be quite tasking. So leave the SID, STAR and Route info in the class 1 & 2, and as for the rest, do with them what you want. Even a few that are a little messed up helps in the learning process. :O



_________________
James/CVA69.........cause that the way I like it.
Image
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:27 am 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2000 2:25 am
Posts: 112
Location: Vancouver
Excellent point, James. Let me ask you a sincere question...

You found your way to the correct SID/STAR by discovering that the SID/STAR posted in the schedule was incorrect. How did you discover it was incorrect? I'm thinking that you went to the site and discovered that what you were looking for did not exist, or had changed? Nonetheless, you were able to find the procedure.

What if we posted the designator of the current procedure in the schedule with the link following that. Would that not provide the same trail to the correct answer?



_________________
Image
Senator - No Job, No Phone, No Office, No Money
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:56 am 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 9:18 am
Posts: 284
Location: Prince George, B.C.
I am a little confused as to what you mean by "designator".

I found some things had probably because when I started here I wanted to work my way through the flights one class @ a time and not move on until I had completed all the flights, pretty much all online. As I worked through the flights I started to see things like the CYVR BOOTH arrival # had changed from what was posted, I didn't have charts and was slowly assembling a pile of paper.

I have quickly discovered that this may be a big waste of paper.

Vancouver to Phoenix
J5 SEA J523 ELY BERYL DRK KARLO9

When I tried to look this up I discovered that "KARLO" was no more, so I looked at "DRK" and started going through all of the stars listed until I found one with "DRK" in it, "COYOT1" then adjusted my flight plan to allow for that arrival.

I have been getting my US charts from "AirNAV.com", and all Arrivals and RWY info has "CHANGED" beside them, and the departures do not when I lookup KPHX.

I build my flight plans from scratch now and don't save them in FSNav or anywere else, this way if I have to look it up each flight I am pretty confident I will be current and won't have some ATC guy that really busy getting pissed with me cause he dosn't have the time for radar vectoring when I should have the correct charts in the first place.



_________________
James/CVA69.........cause that the way I like it.
Image
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:32 pm 
Lookee what I just came across:

http://www.simroutes.com/

Up-to-date routes (incl SID/STAR) from current AIRAC cycle AND charts :)

>>> HERE <<< is a link to Vancouver charts that came up when I ran a flight plan from Van to Toronto



Cheers!

Gary




Edited By Gary Madore on 1119652720


  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:52 am 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2000 3:11 am
Posts: 433
Location: CYVR
Simroutes is what we plan on linking to once the new website is up...


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 7:54 pm 
Cool. You'd think a Hub Captain would have known that.....

Cheers!

Gary


  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 Page 2 of 3 [ 34 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

cron