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 Post subject: Home Cockpit, switches and buttons
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:14 pm 
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I just got my FDS-SYS1X Card from Flight deck Solutions, 128 switch inputs and 256 LEDs out, hooked up a switch and LED and it was working in a few moments
Just tried the gear lights, master on/off, and autopilot on/off but it works great, and there is enough with just the one to hook up switches to all the overhead in the 747 or 737.
Now I wished I started building the overhead, because as fast as I can get the wires on the switches they can be working. Next the Flight Control Interface, it controls the flight controls
then the relay board which will control a stick shaker switches like the 747 start switches that click off after starting. Well back to building a cockpit...... 747, 737, 747 737 A320, 767 ahhhhhhhh.......:P
http://www.flightdecksolutions.com/list_products.php?id=22



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 Post subject: Re: Home Cockpit, switches and buttons
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:10 am 
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I've started getting back in electronics for a few months now. I'm in the process of getting prices for rotary encoders, knobs and plastic labels from China (none available locally, ebay is ridiculous - same price as Digikey). I already have LEDs, pushbuttons and just about anything else I need.

Put it this way, an encoder on Digikey starts at $1.50, they start at $0.10/1000 in China (plus shipping and customs). I get 66 encoders for $100 at Digikey or 1000 from China, shoot, I can even put some up on eBay if I really wanted. At least the exchange rate is not an issue right now.

I started by getting a simple USB program to talk between the PIC micro-controller and the PC again. Now I'm waiting on a few rotary encoders from eBay so I can start testing (encoders requie a bit of programming). And then it's on to interfacing with FSUIPC, that's going to be new.

My intended design is for the average simmer; not for a dedicated desk. The panels will clamp onto a standard desk, right over and around a CH yoke, and can be removed when finished. My prototype will be for the 767 and then I'll go on from there. But my unltimate goal is to make a 4-engine system that can fly them all.

The problem is that it isn't possible to place all the switches and buttons of the LDS767 on a small surface. You need a large area and that's where things quickly get complicated for a removeable design. It's a piece of cake for permanent cockpits, just make the panels as big as you want and the simmers will bolt them "wherever".



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 Post subject: Re: Home Cockpit, switches and buttons
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:29 am 
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Cal,

Can you tell me which lottery you won so that I can try my luck too in order to build expensive fleck deck system:):):):)

Aharon



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 Post subject: Re: Home Cockpit, switches and buttons
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:04 am 
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LOL I wish, Just doing it a bit at a time, Right now I have the autopilot push buttons (lighted when on) working, most switches for the Baron 58, no touching the keyboard in that plane
Right now I am working on the plans for a full size 738 cockpit, using Flight Deck Solutions electronics. buying the FMC , MCP, Comm and Nav Radios, and probably the upper panel.
Its kinda nice to use a gear lever to select gear up and down. :D I'll get some pictures up here soon.



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 Post subject: Re: Home Cockpit, switches and buttons
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:58 am 
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Step 1:

Get local time on a network PC while FS-X runs on the main gamer. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Home Cockpit, switches and buttons
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:06 am 
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How to make simple switches by hacking a USB keyboard:

1. Open the keyboard, solder wires from both long connectors.

Image


2. Start up any keyboard display program, then "jumper" each contact with a piece of wire until you complete a grid.

Image


You can now generate any single-keystroke command using that tiny circuit board, some wire and a switch (momentary ON).



If you want to get into basic electronics, microcontrollers and circuit boards; you can piggyback that USB circuit and generate multi-keystroke commands like ALT-SHIFT-A.

Image



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 Post subject: Re: Home Cockpit, switches and buttons
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:33 am 
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Cal Jordan (CVA371) wrote:
...then the relay board which will control a stick shaker...



Quote:
FDS-SYS-R1X Relay Board (New Standalone Design!)

FDS-SYS-R1X Board with 8 built-in relay packs is newly designed to work as a standalone module. The FDS-SYS-R1 is designed to allow you to directly trigger real aircraft parts or electronic components that require more �constant� power than The the SYS boards are designed to provide. Engine Start switches, Stick Shakers are examples where the FDS-SYS-R1X would be an ideal device. No Power Supply is required, USB connection and our super simple XML import capabilities make this the "go to" piece for integrating those tougher devices!
Price: $ 249.95



No external power supply? Ugh, USB is limitted to 500mA, or 1/2 of one amp if you prefer. You're not going to be shaking many small motors with that. There's the issue of possible noise coming from the motors, I wouldn't want that connected to my USB line (isolation is another can of worms). And then there's the little matter of motors generally taking more than their current rating on start-up (I think electricians use 2X as a rule of thumb on motors). I have no idea how much current they consume when they hit resistance (shaker sticks).

Maybe their idea of tougher devices is ultra-bright LEDs?

I wish you luck Cal. Their components aren't cheap. You can put as many switches as you want, they consume close to nothing. Regular LEDs consume about 20mA each, so about 25 LEDs later and you're pushing the 500mA limit. And don't forget to factor how much current their circuit consumes.

Sorry, but powering external devices from USB is going to get you in trouble. The bestest and cheapest source is an old PC power supply; 5 and 12 volts on demand. Even small wall adapters are so affordable now, I don't get why they didn't at least go that route. Just look at any force feedback gaming controllers, the ones that don't blow up all use wall adapters.


EDIT:

Quote:
The FDS-SYS-R1 is designed to allow you to directly trigger real aircraft parts or electronic components that require more �constant� power than The the SYS boards are designed to provide.

I was re-reading the specs to see if I missed something and that sentence just doesn't make any sense. The FDS-SYS-R1 is powered by USB, the SYS1, 3 and 4 have external power supplies; how the R1 can provide more power than the other 3 is beyond me.



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 Post subject: Re: Home Cockpit, switches and buttons
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:53 pm 
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Ya mine is the FDS-SYS1X Card from Flight deck Solutions, 128 switch inputs and 256 LEDs out with the power supply, so far not a glitch.



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 Post subject: Re: Home Cockpit, switches and buttons
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:25 pm 
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Cal Jordan (CVA371) wrote:
... 128 switch inputs and 256 LEDs...


What is the current rating on the power supply?

As I said, switches consume practically nothing. Depending on their circuit design, they could have a small resistor on each input. But that load will be negligible 'cause you will never have all inputs activated at the same time.

But look at the LEDs; they could potentially be on all at once, 256 x 20mA is 5.12 amps. Now factor in the current consumed by the circuit, possibly 100mA, and then factor in a safety margin, at least 500mA, and you're near 6 amps.

As more and more companies cut corners on costs, you never buy a 5A PS for a 5A load. You have to take in tolerances 'cause not all 5A PS are identical even when they are built-identical. Corner-cutting also applies to the component manufacturers, ie: 5% is a common tolerance on resistors, sometimes it can be 10%. Separately it's no big deal, but when you put all those components together things add up.

I noticed one thing when teaching myself basic electronics; it's always better to leave yourself a large safety net and make circuits much more robust than they have to be. One safety feature I'm starting to use now with USB is isolation; no wires physically connect the external device and the PC. Power to the device will come from an external source and the data lines will use a transceiver (still researching that part).

I can't afford to send 25 amps into the USB socket. :D

Once the magic smoke comes out, you can never put it back in.



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 Post subject: Re: Home Cockpit, switches and buttons
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:37 am 
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Quote:
Once the magic smoke comes out, you can never put it back in.

Sure you can, seal it off really good, buy a can of smoke and put it back in and seal it off again........ :P

I'm out in camp right now so I don't have access to the card, I'll check out the power supply when I get home.
They do run the JetMax on them http://www.jetmax.ca/



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 Post subject: Re: Home Cockpit, switches and buttons
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:37 am 
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HOLY SMOKES! $1K for MCP and EFIS?

Cal, look at something I just sent out to a membrane supplier. It's not what I originally wanted, but this offers so much more flexibility; no need for complicated switches (except encoders), integrated graphics and possibly much lower cost (waiting on estimate for CDU, just to see how much this stuff costs compared to mechanical switches and surface labels.

Image



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 Post subject: Re: Home Cockpit, switches and buttons
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:13 pm 
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Wow I did not know we have two electricians on CVA!!!!

Maybe I should ask them to install satellite tv on cockpits of all my CVA planes so that I can watch while flying??:):):):) :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Aharon



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 Post subject: Re: Home Cockpit, switches and buttons
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:01 pm 
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Check this out Cal:

5 inch LCD
Dot Resolution: 640x480 pixels
Brightness: 200 cd/?
Contrast Ratio: 500:1
Aspect Ratio: 4:3
Backlight: LED
Viewing Angle: 70°/70°(L/R) 50°/70°U/D)
Input Voltage: DC12V±15%
Input Signal:VGA,A/V,S-video,HDMI
Power Consumption: ?6W
WorkingTemperature:-20?~60?
Storage Temperature:-30?~70?
Unit Size: 143.5L×70.4W×17H(mm)
Unit Weight: 280g
(some of the characters from the spec sheet got garbled)

Image


All I'd need is a modified gauge of the FMC with just the display area and then drag the undocked window over to the LCD. This thing takes VGA so it can plug on a video card. At least that's the plan, I'll order a sample in a few days and test it out.

This is just the best one from the first 4 of 17 suppliers that I sent a quote request yesterday night. Alibaba.com is great! And I only sent out to the first page of 88 (3,587 Products found). LOL

I'll probably order a 7" sample for a GPS unit at the same time, might as well save a bit on expenses. Ooh, and these guys take paypal, no need for T/T from the bank.


You gotta love doing business with the Chinese. This is the sort of picture they put in their contact information:

Image



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 Post subject: Re: Home Cockpit, switches and buttons
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:04 am 
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That looks cool, 7" would work for the FMC 8)



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 Post subject: Re: Home Cockpit, switches and buttons
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:04 am 
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Yeah, but 7" are 16:9, not 4:3.

16:9 looks more like the FS-X GPS, 4:3 looks like the Level-D FMC. I would think 16:9 would stretch the FMC.

I'm hoping to be able to get at least one of each; no better way to know than to plug them in.

The main issue I'm concerned with is drivers; there's no mention anywhere of Windows compatibility. These things are mainly used in automotive applications; most are 12V DC.



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