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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:35 am 
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HondaJet

Click on the link above to see it - The HondaJet incorporates some innovative properties including an above-wing mounted engine which - according to Honda - dramatically increases fuel efficiency and reduces drag.

The aircraft also features a 'laminar-flow' wing design which does better with natural vortex thingyies or something...



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:11 am 
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The Honda jet has actually been around for some time. Honda decided to build a jet engine many years ago, and eventually decided to build an airframe as a test bed for that engine. When questioned, Honda maintained that they had no intention of entering the light jet business commercially, and the industry has since wondered what was going on. Predictably, they are marketing the Honda Jet, but not very aggressively. I don't know why, or why not.

As for the wing top mounted engine, this is far from a new concept, and has been toyed with many, many years ago. I'm too lazy to dig through this background right now, but I recall that there were certain aerodynamic inefficiencies directly related to this configuration that killed the concept. Whether Honda has overcome these or not, I don't know; yet, my own cynicism dictates that Honda's less than aggressive approach to marketing this aircraft lends the theory a modicum of credibility. Again, this is a totally uninformed and somewhat rednecked opinion.

Anyway, so far, the Honda Jet has not generated any enthusiasm or editorial space in the flying publications that I read; whereas the efforts of Embrauer, Cessna, Eclipse, Adam, and a few others most certainly are being watched and reported on closely. I'd take a small bet that Honda wants to break into the jet engine business, and eventually will be very successful. The airframe is of no consequence to their long term plans and will disappear just like the earlier top wing mounted engine concepts. They just wanted to draw attention with something different, and that they've done very successfully.



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:38 am 
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soooo...you don't like the jet?

:D

You're certainly right about Cessna and Eclipse, Ken...the VLJ market is heating up nicely now that the US Forces are putting out a number of tenders. I won't say much about Embraer although I stab a small knife through a ERJ voodoo doll every night before I goto sleep.

GO BOMBARDIER!!!

:p



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:10 am 
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It's a hot looking little plane, isn't it?

Purhaps Ken is referring to the HE162, a WWII German fighter with a top mounted engine. It was known to be Longitudenly unstable, probably due to the jet engine washing out the elevators (A common problem on the tail-wheeled ME-262's as well)

With it's high T tail and engines lifted well above the wing (I assume so they don't interfere with airflow across the top) purhaps Honda has eliminated the problem.

Only time will tell....




Edited By Keith CVA51 on 1154052672



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:40 pm 
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Hey, Devon. I didn't say I didn't like the jet, I was just pointing out that this configuration will probably quietly disappear, and that it is not new technology (the engine mounting, I mean - the engines ARE new technology).

Anyway, here is one of the better articles discussing this issue, originally published back in December '05. Peter Garrison is an astute and excellent technical writer whom I respect. He built his own a/c from scratch (self designed the whole thing) and flew it from the US to Japan. Here's his take on the Honda Jet (please note that it is a 2 page article - easy to miss at the bottom):

They Want To Put Them Where? by Peter Garrison




Edited By Ken CVA868 on 1154717270



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:43 pm 
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Yeah Yeah - you're grouchy - just admit it...
:p



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:49 pm 
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Nah...I'm eternally and hopelessly cheery, ya mook! :p



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:37 am 
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Yet the question remains...did you read the article linked above? If so, what are your thoughts?



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:57 am 
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Sorry Ken - yeah, i read the article. I think he makes some good points and as far as attention seeking goes - this debut fits in to their recent ad campaign. In a way, I don't think Honda takes the jet as seriously Peter Garrison does. I do think that Honda has a viable product, but as Garrison points out - the clear intention of this aircraft is to sell engines and I wholeheartedly agree with that. This debut came on the back of an announcement regarding the new partnership between Honda and Piper (match made in heaven??) which more or less makes the Hondajet completely redundant. After all - why would you buy a Honda-built aircraft when you could buy a Piper with all the benefits of the engines which Mr. Garrison himself admits are the piece-de-resistance. Perhaps Honda needed to prove something to Piper first and the Hondajet was the test platform for that proof to be presented. Perhaps Honda needed to demonstrate their own ability to enter the aviation market before consumers would have faith in their turbofans - I don't know. What I do know is that in one other area Honda has recently ventured into with respect to engines (F1) - they have just walked away with yet another Grand Prix victory this past weekend - and that is bloody impressive considering that they've only been in the F1 game for a relatively short time.

Honda has been investing every red cent into fuel economy research - and it's paying off. They have a new diesel engine which defies all the rules and is selling in Europe faster than you can say 'Volfsprung Technic!'

It's easy to nitpick at new designs and no doubt we'll observe Airbus and Boeing punch the crap out of each other when the 787 and A350XWB are respectively unveiled - at the end of the day, I say look at the bottom line. I see a lot of mention about disputing Honda's claims about specific innovations - but everyone admits that this is a good little aircraft, and as far as I'm concerned -that's what wins the race.



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:24 pm 
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Devon, Honda is the Largest ENGINE manufacture in the world, Hands down. So I see this as a market they have haven't tapped yet. As for F1, Honda was involved in the 70's for years and won almost every race, I think they gave up as there was just no competition back then, and when other engine manufactures got better @ it and more reliable they entered the F1 game again. "Just my take on it", so take it with a grain of salt.



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:16 am 
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Well stated, Devon. I don't think I'm wrong when I state that Honda (as already pointed out), being a huge engine manufacturer, simply did what was necessary to provide credibilty for their new engine. From a marketing standpoint, their strategy is brilliant - build an airframe that will draw criticism and/or comment. I have always believed that there is no such thing as "bad" press. If you are in the news, you will be talked about. The more controversial, the better. At the very least, you will be remembered.

I am totally impressed with Honda's engine, and their strategy of introduction; yet, I have to say, the airframe still doesn't light any fires in my soul.



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