Class of Aircraft / Routes

Rob Vanderkam · Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:10 am

Yes, please add

- CYYZ - CYOW as a route for LDS class a/c (currently class 2) because these are two major cities and can have large groups flying between them.

- CYYZ - CYUL ditto

Rob Vanderkam · Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:30 am

CVA0014 wrote:

If anyone wants a file containing all CVA flights to upload into Excel, contact me and I'll send it over. This data is currently available to all CVA members, I just massaged it to make it more helpful.

Class, Flight, Departure, Destination, Return flight, Distance, Route

Flights without return flights are easily identified. Duplicate flights have been removed. Flights without routes now have DIRECT.

This makes it easier to sort in whatever order you wish once you import into Excel. I didn't post the file for direct download so it cannot be accessed by non-members.

Make sure to mention your name and CVA ID or else your PM/email will remain in limbo.

Please send me that list too Robert. It's still pretty hard to find multiple routes based on a/c class, for example.

rvanderkam --at-- ncf dot ca

or pm me - thanks

Any plans to keep it up to date?

Edited By Rob Vanderkam on 1264987869

CVA0014 · Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:54 am

Update on route database maintenance:

Just a heads up to let you know how things are progressing:

- The technical issues have been cleaned up. This was stuff like fields having ENTER or COMMA inside that mess up CSV extracts (Comma Separated Values). This didn't affect pilots but made it a royal pain for me to do my job, and not cleaning the stuff up guaranteed that I would mess up the database since the data would not align in the proper fields.

- Missing return flights for Halifax hub, these have been entered.

- Missing return flights for Toronto hub, these have been entered right now.

- Routes were done using Flight Sim Commander v8.6 with AIRAC 1001.

- All routes were double-checked using the LDS-767 FMC.

- SIDs, STARs and transitions were included whenever possible.

(more to come as work is complete)

Edited By CVA0014 on 1269233724

Bill Haystead · Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:32 am

Sounds as if you have been very busy and accomplished much, Robert. Bravo, well done!

Cheers Bill

Aharon · Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:42 pm

Robert,

Thanks for all good work!!! :thumbsup:

Regards,

Aharon

CVA1409 · Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:17 pm

Sounds like good work Robert!

I would be willing to double check all the routings from CYYZ, or any field in CZYZ for accuracy before publishing. Better to correct an error once at this stage, than everyone getting a re-route on every flight:)

Also - note that the preferred routes to the Detroit area fields have recently changed - refer to the NOTAM on the navcanada website for full details.

The best new for you is that the resturcture of the Windsor - Montreal Airsapce corridor that was supposed to be happening this year, which would change virtually all routes out of CYYZ is on hold, and will probably now be implemented piecemeal. I'll keep you informed as I find any more news.

CVA0014 · Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:24 pm

Richard,

I had thought of having the flights reviewed by an ATC person. I put a lot of thought into the subject of preferred routes and eventually decided to just use FSC. Until Christmas I had been using the in-game planner to route my flights 'cause I often was missing waypoints from the CVA routes and I never had problems with those. I figured FSC with updated airac had to be better than that. On top of that I follow victors and jetways whenever possible.

Another thing with preferred routes was that they seemed to change from pilot to pilot. They are also subject to change as you mentionned, and several of the flights on sites like SimRoutes made no sense at all (I showed a few to Rob a while back).

So, I put myself in the shoes of the simple pilot and did what he would do; put in departure and arrival airports and clicked on GENERATE HIGH FLIGHT and editted some of the fluff out the route. Pilots always have the ability to change their route anyways.

As mentionned by Frank and a few others, we already have nearly 1000 flights in the database, most are in the Toronto hub already. I had a lot of flights to add and needed to expedite matters It's already been 3 months since I started and I'm only 1/2 way there with still Vancouver and Cargo missing return flights to be added. And then there's a bunch of 767 flights, then there are several international flights which could be cool to add and somewhere in all that are the special requests from pilots.

So that's my reasoning why I decided to enter the routes this way. We can always have a second phase of this project and have knowledgeable volunteers go through the entire database, review routes and propose new routes using ATC-accepted airways. Many of the cva routes are already obsolete anyways, with a few that are out of whack (like those that cross the Atlantic via a waypoint close to south Africa instead of using NAT tracks).

But I am still interested in learning about Canadian flight corridors. Maybe start a thread explaining them so that others might take advantage of your knowledge too? Reading about stuff from the perspective of ATC personnel can only help pilots understand why things are done the way they are.

Edited By CVA0014 on 1269272181

Rob Vanderkam · Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:13 pm

Hear. Hear. I'd like to know how ATC decides if a FP needs changing. What's that about? Doesn't the pilot decide where he wants to go? If not, shouldn't it be the ATC that supplies schedules? See where I'm going?

CVA1409 · Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:21 pm

One of my many jobs on the to-do list is a webpage on the CZYZ site explaining the routings.....I'll be sure to copy something here!

Preferred routes are published by Nav Canada in the CFS -- see setion C if you have one.

For Toronto, the most important things are

a) Do not include SIDs. These change depending on the runway in use. (In fact, for all of Canada SIDs are assigned by ATC)

b) Any outbound routes via BUF, YSO, YMS or YWT conflict with the 4 inbound routes, and WILL be amended by ATC.

I have no experience with FSC (I've never seen the need, personally, but I like using maps!!) but I DO know that the FS9 route planner will almost always generate an unacceptable routing.

CVA0014 · Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:46 pm

I like FSC 'cause I can use the latest airac, and I don't have to track down charts for places south of the US, what a pain, ugh...

I can also plan a route to Europe or Asia at the tip of my fingers, I like that. I didn't even know NAT tracks existed until I used FSC.

I haven't done it yet, but I can connect FSC to FSX as a moving map, but I don't want to burden the CPU, I'm waiting until I can get another network PC up and running (resuscitating a P4-1700 to replace the struggling P3-1000).

CVA0014 · Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:45 am

Rob, Randy, Gary and Barry, check your mail.

I sent out an updated file.

CVA0319 · **Joined:** Tue Dec 01, 2009 1:26 am **Posts:** 583

Thanks Robert!

CVA0190 · Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:09 am

Got it Robert - Thanks!!

Rob Vanderkam · Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:17 pm

Did a new flight yesterday in a heavy - KSTL to CYYZ - yayyyyy!!!

Thanks, Robert.

CVA0014 · Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:02 pm

Update on route database maintenance:

- Missing return flights for Cargo hub, these have been entered.

(more to come as work is complete)

Class of Aircraft / Routes

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